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Lead Bans and Tournaments

UserPost

8:43 am
January 6, 2012


Henry Fristik

Chester, MA

Moderator

posts 75

     I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday and the subject of the new lead ban in Massachusetts came up in conversation. He told me that he wasn't about to throw away all the jigs he had and that he planned on continuing to use them until he ran out, including using them in tournaments. I informed him that as far as using them on an everyday basis that was his choice but know that if caught he would most likely be fined for the offense. I then informed him that using them in tournaments was another issue all together.

     Let me give you the same example I gave him. Let's say your fishing in a tournament and in contention to win, maybe you even have the winning bag of fish. You (and or your partner if it's a team tournament) are throwing lead jigs under an ounce during the tournament. If any other contestant sees you throw that bait they will most likely file a protest against you and at that point you most likely are disqualified. My friend then said to me that he would just claim he was throwing a 1 ounce jig. To that I told him to remember that most tournaments have a clause in the rules stating that tournament officials have the right use a polygraph test to any contestant in the tournament. My friend then said that he hadn't thought of that and admitted if that happened he would have to admit to using the jig or pull out of the tournament.

     The reason I share this conversation is to educate any tournament angler that you will no longer be able to throw the leads in competition legally. If you choose to ignore that law and are caught using lead weights or jigs during an event you will be disqualified. Just wanted to give all a heads up.

    

Henry Fristik

GYLW

Chicopee Bass'n Association – President

10:31 am
January 6, 2012


edrz20

Member

posts 15

Being able to protest someone because you "think" they are using lead is absurd. It should be no different then the 45mph speed limit in the state. If you get a ticket in a tournament for a lead violation then you should be DQ'd, but protesting, come on. Figure out how to catch the fish to win and you won't have to worry about protesting others that do catch them.

3:04 pm
January 6, 2012


Henry Fristik

Chester, MA

Moderator

posts 75

     I believe that protesting was put in place to help keep cheaters in check. Now certainly if your not cheating and someone puts a protest in against you then you have nothing to worry about. That is the reason for the protest rule, to help keep everyone in check and make sure no-one breaks the rules. It is in no way based on a ticket one might receive. I have never protested anyone in a tournament myself, but if I saw someone breaking a law to take an unfair advantage I most certainly would. I'm only wondering now, not assuming that based on your tone you think it's ok to break rules as long as your not caught? Perhaps simply because one "thinks" they may have seen a rule violation? After all a protest is nothing more than an inquirer into possible rules violations is it not? I don't recall reading any rules in any tournament trail that states one need undeniable proof a violation of the rules has taken place in order to protest.

     I will end with this, make no mistake that I didn't make the assumption you have to be winning to be protested. I would protest someone in last place if I truly believed they violated the rules of the tournament or of the state it was held in. It has nothing to do with winning or losing at that point but morals. Cheating is wrong and needs to be dealt with when it occurs period. I simply wanted to point out to everyone that cation should be taken in regard to this new lead ban. You have the right to your opinion, but from what I just read I wonder why anyone would take a stance like that? If the last comment you made was directed at me I think I have little trouble finding fish and winning tournaments.

Henry Fristik

GYLW

Chicopee Bass'n Association – President

5:30 pm
January 6, 2012


edrz20

Member

posts 15

The last comment was not directed at you personally. I am just saying that in general, people need to worry about themselves and not worry about others. I can't think of a reason why using lead would give anyone an unfair advantage. People drive over 45 on the water during a tournament in MA all the time, and when they do, they are cheating and breaking the law. But almost everyone does it and there doesn't seem to be a problem with that. Do you drive over 45? What about the guy with the smaller boat who's boat goes 35? People with faster boats have an advantage over him, so how come no one protests? I have no problem protesting if someone is breaking a tournament rule; that is what the protest is for. But if we start protesting about lead usage, it is going to be utter chaos. It is a ridiculous law anyway. Let the EPOs enforce it; not the fishermen. I am in the process of switching over my tackle. That last thing I want is someone protesting me when I did nothing wrong, but how on earth would you be able to tell if I was using lead or not? Look for guys not wearing there vests when the big engine is on or fishing an area that may be off limits, don't worry if they are using lead or not.

6:55 pm
January 6, 2012


201tim

Shutesbury

Member

posts 21

I have to agree with edz20 on this. If people are able to just say "hey those guys over there that were 30 yds away from me are using lead I saw it DQ them" What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty. Henry what if someone out of the blue just accused you of using lead and had no evidence. Would you DQ yourself just because someone else just said so with no proof or would you ask to see evidence since you had no lead in your boat. How can you prove it wasn't lead? are we going to have a lab test it or just take someones word on it. This law is stupid and needs to be repealed.

6:00 am
January 7, 2012


mossboss

Southwick,Ma

Member

posts 141

it is going to be hard to DQ someone for it as you are allowed to have lead in the boat and even tied on, just not in the water, like the 45mph law- going to be near impossible to prove without a ticket

6:55 am
January 7, 2012


Henry Fristik

Chester, MA

Moderator

posts 75

Ed,

 

     I do agree with you the law is ridiculous but only because it includes lead head jigs. At present there aren't adequate replacements for these as only a few options are available and don't come close to replace all the types of lead heads we use. My point was to make everyone aware that it "could" happen, I wasn't suggesting people should protest. However it's up to every angler to protect the other competitors, themselves and the general public if they see laws being broken whether you agree with them or not. I do agree that there is no unfair advantage in using lead, but not everyone will go spend $6.00 a jig for non-toxic replacements and won't be throwing jig heads anymore. Thus the unfair advantage. The law isn't ridiculous as there is adequate proof lead is killing birds. We are conservationist first, and must protect what we are allowed to use or there will be no more use. It isn't our god given right to fish, it is a gift and we need to respect that gift. But I do again believe lead heads for now shouldn't have been included until more alternative are available.

    Let me ask you this, we as tournament fisherman are supposed to pick and choose when we enforce rules on others based on whether or not we agree with them? So if a tournament goes by BASS rules and someone culls a dead fish and another angler sees this and chooses to ignore it because they don't believe in that rule that is ok? In my mind it isn't, but I'm obviously in the minority here but that is probably because I spend a lot more money than all of you fishing tournaments so there is a lot more on the line for me. Does that make more sense? I don't think it does, but I'm guessing if you played in my water you might think differently. In the trails I fish, if you sneeze the wrong way and someone sees you, you will be turned in. Not because they want you DQ'd but because they are protecting the integrity of the event and the sport as a hole even when they don't agree. Why? Because it's the right thing to do.

     201tim, I'm a bad choice for protesting using lead. Let anyone protest me for the use of lead, I have none in my boat and haven't for over 5 years. Tungsten is far superior to lead and I switched years before any state started banning lead. Ed, I don't go over the 45 mph speed limit, it burns to much fuel and the tournaments in this state aren't worth enough to me to burn fuel for no reason. I fish them to relax and get away from the stress of the trails I fish. I don't even care if I win or lose, local tournaments are my time to relax. So no I don't go over 45 mph. Ask anyone in my club and they will tell you they all pass me at take off. But I don't go over 45 mph because of the law, I don't because I'm trying to save money Wink. mossboss, I have to do some checking because normally when a law like this is passed possession while fishing is a violation. For instance that is the case in Vermont. I will get back to you on that asap. I do agree with you all and stated it would be difficult to prove, but could happen.

     Again, I believe you guys over reacted to my post by taking it out of context. I was only trying to point out something that could happen and save someone some trouble. Please don't read into it and understand this friend was actually telling me he was going to throw lead. Ed, you know this will happen eventually so if I can help one person who thinks they might be able to get away with it from being DQ'd or getting fined then that's great. If you guys want to read into everything that's awesome, it's good for the site Cool.

Henry Fristik

GYLW

Chicopee Bass'n Association – President

4:45 pm
January 7, 2012


mossboss

Southwick,Ma

Member

posts 141

Henry, here is the regulation right from the fish and wildlife website:

(i) to use a lead sinker, lead weight, or lead jig in the inland waters of Massachusetts; provided that this prohibition shall be enforceable beginning January 1, 2012.

 

nowhere does it say you cannot have lead jigs in your possession

8:09 am
January 10, 2012


Henry Fristik

Chester, MA

Moderator

posts 75

mossboss,

 

     I have a copy, so don't personally need the link but thanks for posting it so others can go to it. I understand what that subsection says. I understand by just reading that it defines "use" of. But being in law enforcement for ten years I also understand that somewhere in CMR 321 there "could" be a subsection on prohibited items / usage and possession. This is why simply reading one section of a law isn't advisable as often times there is more to the law than whats seen in a particular subsection. So instead of reading the whole section I will make an inquiry to see if possession maybe an issue.

Henry Fristik

GYLW

Chicopee Bass'n Association – President


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